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	<title>Comments on: Advice for Economics Undergraduates</title>
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	<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/</link>
	<description>Econometrics, gender, equity and more.</description>
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		<title>By: Harriet (aka geekyisgood)</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>Harriet (aka geekyisgood)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-992</guid>
		<description>Coming a bit late to the party but from a UK perspective references from an economics researcher who publishes aren&#039;t quite so necessary. You don&#039;t need an economics background at all, but what you need to survive (if not to get in at all) is a strong mathematical background. Of course the econ background helps an awful lot, but on my course we have people from a range of disciplines (maths, physics, engineering, international development, finance, philosophy).

I recommend taking at least one maths/stats/econometrics course a year while you&#039;re an undergrad if you want to go on to grad level economics, and if you&#039;re serious about a career as an academic economist, I&#039;d do all the quantitative units I could (I regret not taking some during my first degree). And even if you don&#039;t, it&#039;ll look great to employers (certainly in the UK everyone moans that graduates aren&#039;t numerate enough).

I think Econ departments look on philosophy quite kindly, although it probably depends what kind. Econ departments are interested in logical rigour, and philosophy can provide plenty of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming a bit late to the party but from a UK perspective references from an economics researcher who publishes aren&#8217;t quite so necessary. You don&#8217;t need an economics background at all, but what you need to survive (if not to get in at all) is a strong mathematical background. Of course the econ background helps an awful lot, but on my course we have people from a range of disciplines (maths, physics, engineering, international development, finance, philosophy).</p>
<p>I recommend taking at least one maths/stats/econometrics course a year while you&#8217;re an undergrad if you want to go on to grad level economics, and if you&#8217;re serious about a career as an academic economist, I&#8217;d do all the quantitative units I could (I regret not taking some during my first degree). And even if you don&#8217;t, it&#8217;ll look great to employers (certainly in the UK everyone moans that graduates aren&#8217;t numerate enough).</p>
<p>I think Econ departments look on philosophy quite kindly, although it probably depends what kind. Econ departments are interested in logical rigour, and philosophy can provide plenty of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 17:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-97</guid>
		<description>Great post.  And I agree with much of what was said by Jennifer and Zac.

An internship during the summer, especially during your early undergraduate years (right after freshmen year) can be extremely helpful.  You&#039;ll get a better sense of your preferences.  And, if you have academic inclinations, it can help you see that.  That&#039;ll help you plan the rest of your undergraduate courses if it really seems like a PHD program is in your future.

Regarding Zac&#039;s comments...

You&#039;re absolutely right that an A in philosophy won&#039;t mean much to an admissions committee for a PHD in economics.  But from my experience an A- or a B won&#039;t matter too much either.  They just totally discount those grades entirely.

The things that seem to matter to admissions committee for top econ programs are:

1) Recommendations (you need to have rec&#039;s from people who do serious economics research)
2) Research expereinces/publications (this can tie in with the first)
3) Math courses and grades in those courses

At a certain level, your GPA is almost completely meaningless except to the extent which it reflects your math grades.  If you have a 3.5 and all As in math, that&#039;s really about the same to them as a 4.0 and all As in math.  

Why do I say this? 

Because I&#039;ve seen quite a few people get into top programs with totally subpar overall undergraduate grades, great recommendations and great research experience.  I&#039;ve also seen people with Phi Beta Kappa and 4.0s get into mediocre programs because they lack research or recommendations that are impressive.

For the best results in the PHD game, you really need to have all three of the bases above covered.  

This is pretty hard for most undergraduates outside the Ivy League where research is rare.  If you can&#039;t get attached to a professor who actually publishes, you&#039;re going to find it extremely tough to get into a top program.  Great grades are not sufficient for entry to a top program.  A few bad or mediocre grades also won&#039;t keep you out (unless it&#039;s in a key quantitative course like econometrics or analysis).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  And I agree with much of what was said by Jennifer and Zac.</p>
<p>An internship during the summer, especially during your early undergraduate years (right after freshmen year) can be extremely helpful.  You&#8217;ll get a better sense of your preferences.  And, if you have academic inclinations, it can help you see that.  That&#8217;ll help you plan the rest of your undergraduate courses if it really seems like a PHD program is in your future.</p>
<p>Regarding Zac&#8217;s comments&#8230;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right that an A in philosophy won&#8217;t mean much to an admissions committee for a PHD in economics.  But from my experience an A- or a B won&#8217;t matter too much either.  They just totally discount those grades entirely.</p>
<p>The things that seem to matter to admissions committee for top econ programs are:</p>
<p>1) Recommendations (you need to have rec&#8217;s from people who do serious economics research)<br />
2) Research expereinces/publications (this can tie in with the first)<br />
3) Math courses and grades in those courses</p>
<p>At a certain level, your GPA is almost completely meaningless except to the extent which it reflects your math grades.  If you have a 3.5 and all As in math, that&#8217;s really about the same to them as a 4.0 and all As in math.  </p>
<p>Why do I say this? </p>
<p>Because I&#8217;ve seen quite a few people get into top programs with totally subpar overall undergraduate grades, great recommendations and great research experience.  I&#8217;ve also seen people with Phi Beta Kappa and 4.0s get into mediocre programs because they lack research or recommendations that are impressive.</p>
<p>For the best results in the PHD game, you really need to have all three of the bases above covered.  </p>
<p>This is pretty hard for most undergraduates outside the Ivy League where research is rare.  If you can&#8217;t get attached to a professor who actually publishes, you&#8217;re going to find it extremely tough to get into a top program.  Great grades are not sufficient for entry to a top program.  A few bad or mediocre grades also won&#8217;t keep you out (unless it&#8217;s in a key quantitative course like econometrics or analysis).</p>
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		<title>By: Zac Gochenour</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Zac Gochenour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 17:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-95</guid>
		<description>As someone who deeply considered going for a PhD in economics, I of course consider myself an expert, perhaps wrongly...

Point 1 is well-publicized on any graduate school entrance guide but woefully under-emphasized by undergraduate advisors and even econ professors.  You will not have a chance at the top graduate programs without sufficient math background.  A double major is probably the best thing you can do for yourself.

Point 2 I disagree with, with a caveat.  Of course you should take the time to enrich yourself, and if you are interested in social science there are many texts that might be considered required..  but if your intent is to become a researcher in economics, you should focus your coursework on classes that are directly relevant, where your grade will show an aptitude for further study.  An A in political science 101 won&#039;t mean much to graduate admissions officers, whereas a solid performance in another math or statistics class would be better.  You also don&#039;t want to end up like me, getting an A- in an intro philosophy class because you didn&#039;t feel like showing up to all the pointless lectures and getting docked for attendance.

As far as not knowing what field you really want to be working in, you will be severely disadvantaged in the admissions process if you didn&#039;t make your mind up until late (I was).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who deeply considered going for a PhD in economics, I of course consider myself an expert, perhaps wrongly&#8230;</p>
<p>Point 1 is well-publicized on any graduate school entrance guide but woefully under-emphasized by undergraduate advisors and even econ professors.  You will not have a chance at the top graduate programs without sufficient math background.  A double major is probably the best thing you can do for yourself.</p>
<p>Point 2 I disagree with, with a caveat.  Of course you should take the time to enrich yourself, and if you are interested in social science there are many texts that might be considered required..  but if your intent is to become a researcher in economics, you should focus your coursework on classes that are directly relevant, where your grade will show an aptitude for further study.  An A in political science 101 won&#8217;t mean much to graduate admissions officers, whereas a solid performance in another math or statistics class would be better.  You also don&#8217;t want to end up like me, getting an A- in an intro philosophy class because you didn&#8217;t feel like showing up to all the pointless lectures and getting docked for attendance.</p>
<p>As far as not knowing what field you really want to be working in, you will be severely disadvantaged in the admissions process if you didn&#8217;t make your mind up until late (I was).</p>
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		<title>By: Alex M Thomas</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex M Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 10:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Happy that you mentioned the importance of interdisciplinary studies as well.

Critical theory-postmodernism is an/one interesting theory. Check it out.

Here is my take on the interdisciplinary nature of economics.
http://alexmthomas.wordpress.com/2007/03/08/the-fellowship-of-economics/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy that you mentioned the importance of interdisciplinary studies as well.</p>
<p>Critical theory-postmodernism is an/one interesting theory. Check it out.</p>
<p>Here is my take on the interdisciplinary nature of economics.<br />
<a href="http://alexmthomas.wordpress.com/2007/03/08/the-fellowship-of-economics/" rel="nofollow">http://alexmthomas.wordpress.com/2007/03/08/the-fellowship-of-economics/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 02:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-77</guid>
		<description>Wait, Allison, are you from University of Toronto (U of T)? If so, ahhhhhh finally somebody from my school who blogs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, Allison, are you from University of Toronto (U of T)? If so, ahhhhhh finally somebody from my school who blogs!</p>
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		<title>By: Allison</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 21:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-76</guid>
		<description>No idea - at U of T it&#039;s a 200-level course, with no university-level prerequisites, so you could take it in first year if you could get a spot and felt inclined. I think most students put it off a year or two though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No idea &#8211; at U of T it&#8217;s a 200-level course, with no university-level prerequisites, so you could take it in first year if you could get a spot and felt inclined. I think most students put it off a year or two though.</p>
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		<title>By: C Brown</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>C Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 21:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-75</guid>
		<description>As an scientist who double-majored in economics, and briefly toyed with the idea of econ grad school (for about 2 seconds), I think there are some good points here.  Especially the first.

 I did not take linear algebra until my senior year -- and immediately wished I had taken it in my freshman year!  How much it would have helped in differential equations, vector calculus, and most of all, in econometrics!!  If I could go back in time to re-schedule my coursework that would be on the top of my list.

For the life of me I can&#039;t understand why they made linear algebra a 400-level (senior level) course!  Can anyone explain that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an scientist who double-majored in economics, and briefly toyed with the idea of econ grad school (for about 2 seconds), I think there are some good points here.  Especially the first.</p>
<p> I did not take linear algebra until my senior year &#8212; and immediately wished I had taken it in my freshman year!  How much it would have helped in differential equations, vector calculus, and most of all, in econometrics!!  If I could go back in time to re-schedule my coursework that would be on the top of my list.</p>
<p>For the life of me I can&#8217;t understand why they made linear algebra a 400-level (senior level) course!  Can anyone explain that?</p>
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		<title>By: James Hanley</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 21:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-60</guid>
		<description>Excellent advice for economics undergrads.  Excellent advice for &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; undergrads.  I&#039;m going to share it with my students.  I&#039;m sure most will ignore it, but occasionally there will be one whose life is made much better by your ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent advice for economics undergrads.  Excellent advice for <i>all</i> undergrads.  I&#8217;m going to share it with my students.  I&#8217;m sure most will ignore it, but occasionally there will be one whose life is made much better by your ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://economicwoman.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 14:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://economicwoman.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/advice-for-economics-undergraduates/#comment-51</guid>
		<description>All excellent suggestions! I&#039;d add that students should get some work experience - do an internship, especially if your school offers course credit for doing one. It&#039;s not only a great way to try out a company or job, but if you decide you like either, you&#039;ve already got your foot in the door. While employers look for a solid academic record, relevant work experience or a recommendation from someone already in the company is often worth a lot more. Even if you are thinking about graduate school, you should try to work in the real world at some point - actually, if you are thinking about grad school, I think it&#039;s even more important to take a year off and go work first. Not only do you need the break (grad school sucks and a lot of people drop out because they are simply burnt out on school), but if you end up staying in academia your whole life, you will have more credibility with your students in the future if you have some work experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All excellent suggestions! I&#8217;d add that students should get some work experience &#8211; do an internship, especially if your school offers course credit for doing one. It&#8217;s not only a great way to try out a company or job, but if you decide you like either, you&#8217;ve already got your foot in the door. While employers look for a solid academic record, relevant work experience or a recommendation from someone already in the company is often worth a lot more. Even if you are thinking about graduate school, you should try to work in the real world at some point &#8211; actually, if you are thinking about grad school, I think it&#8217;s even more important to take a year off and go work first. Not only do you need the break (grad school sucks and a lot of people drop out because they are simply burnt out on school), but if you end up staying in academia your whole life, you will have more credibility with your students in the future if you have some work experience.</p>
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